Stan Mulaik scrit: Bob: I wasn't going to answer any further, but after reading this post to europa.linguas from Stan..... ...... }Actually, I like your slow bending to the inevitable, i.e. that Gode is the }source of the language you use and not a real linguistic group. [kut] Where do you get the idea that Gode had conceived of this language from about 1932?  He was probably like a lot of modern language instructors in 1932 interested in this new organization, the International Auxiliary Language Bob: It's simple. First, when I wrote that I recalled that Gode began with IALA around 1932 or 1933. I looked it up again and Gode says it was 1933. So, you are wrong in your estimate that he only did real work from 1939 on. Secondly, we know from Gode's comments and from Eaton's that Gode was her assistant. What was he doing if not assisting as you would have us believe in your distorted attempt to justify ILa. First, in posts on auxlang you folks said that Eaton's work wasn't that much a part of ILa. Now, you admit the work did form the first 6,000 words of ILa. Unless you call the IALA writers of the Annual Reports liers, then you have to admit what they wrote is true. Second: Gode says in his letter that it is a mistake to think he was a late comer on the scene, etc. Third: We're talking primarily here of the vocabulary, Stan, not the whole language. And, another thing, the vocabulary was originally intended to be useable by any naturalistic language group. That's why it was not published with a Grammar included. I have the quote on this too by Dr. Gode if you haven't read it. Association, which was supported by all the big-name linguists in the world. Bob: This is another total distortion. They did not support the Association. They agreed to offer advice on what they hoped would be a worthwhile project. This is a typical academic method, to request academics to act in the capacity of advisors if called upon. This is just like IALA's distortion of listing sr. de Wahl in the IED as if he supported it. He didn't. None of them were active in IALA, only the linguists [aka translators] in office.  And, like ILAistes used Martinet's name recently as if a supporter of ILa when he accepted an award from them. Because he accepted the award is not a sign one way or the other of accepting the language per se. This is simply distortive PR. But he was not affiliated with any one extant auxiliary language already proposed to the public.  He was probably interested in the theoretical issues that developing an international language entailed. But Gode says most his ideas about developing an international language came from Stillman.  He was able to amplify on them and then push the project through to completion. Bob: Before this Gode worked on the vocabulary and afixes of IALA with Eaton. What he came up with is what he reverted back to when he produced the IED, etc. In his letter he simply mentions  his preferences for Latinisms, etc. and says they probably won't show up in the language. They did, and this cannot be denied, by you or any other spin writer for ILa. How you deduce that the linguists there were just a facade, sitting around doing nothing, while Gode was busy copying the Vocabularium of Occidental, is beyond me.  It smacks of the delusional.  Why would Mrs. Morris hire people who didn't do any work?  Why would she balk at salary demands of Martinet that were, in her opinion, out of line

  The discussion of who invented Interlingua will soon die down again. Mrs. Morris didn't. If she had, the thing would be a spittin' image of Esperanto.  Dr. Martinet didn't.  If he had, the thing would be a spittin' image of Occidental. As for myself, I both didn't and did.  I had learned a lot from Stillman and had learned a lot while working for IALA.  But what I learned and saw and understood and salvaged I learned with my head, saw with my eyes, understood in my way, and salvaged with my energy, for the simple reason that I had no other head, no other eyes, etc.  I really don't see what the hubbub is about.  A thing like Interlingua just can't be the job of one man.  And I still think it's a rather nice _meta_phor and one that satisfies my vanity completely if we agree that I was the midwife of Interlingua. De Guesnet in letters to Berger and others when Martinet resigned at IALA expressed fears that Mrs. Morris would then favor an Esperanto- like solution. What was the basis for those fears? Martinet said in his letter to Berger (before Berger left Occidental) that Mrs Morris schématise à fond [tries to make schematic languages like Esperanto]. We don't know who influenced Stillman's conceptions. But he worked with philologists in Liverpool before taking over the Directorate of the new team he hires in New York.
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3)  IALA was first organized in 1924 by Alice Vanderbilt Morris and her     husband, Dave Hennen Morris, ambassador to Luxemburg from U.S. Wasn't he ambassador to Belgium?

You are right about Dave Hennen Morris being Ambassador to Belgium.  My memory failure. Stan Mulaik

} } } Bob, .... Let's stipulate a number of }things and go from there. } } }Your stipulations are interesting. However, it appears you don't know what }the Annual Reports are versus the 1945 General Report, and probably have }never read them. They do not support your statements about certain years }and Gode. } }I haven't read the General Reports other than the 1945 General Report. It would be interesting to learn what your reasons are for saying that my statements about Gode are not supported by the reports.  What precisely do they say he was doing before 1939? } } } So, rather than go back over and over this again. Let's see what is } left unresolved.  You claimed that the 1949 General Report showed } a page or two of the upcoming IED, and it was different from the } corresponding pages of the actual IED produced by Gode.  Can you } show us the list of Interlingua words so that we can determine how } they differ from the words in Gode's IED?  Could you also quote what } the report says was the way the pages were generated and by whom? } }I never claimed anything about this from the 1949 General Report . The }information is listed elsewhere,.... And, yes the words were changed at }the last minute. Well, I'd like to see  your source for myself.  What was changed and why? What were the words that were changed? } }And, I will have to take time to read your very long diatribe before }answering in detail, if at all. ... By the way, I guess }you know you have been mentioned in some of the old Cosmoglottas? }Veeerrryyy interesting. I suppose.  I circulated a newsletter on Interlingua and related language movements called The Foro back then.  I was known to de Guesnet because we were pen pals for a few years. He wrote in Occidental and I in Interlingua. } }By the way, where are my copies of the booklets you promised me about the }Unacceptable defects of Interlingua, etc? I know why you ILaistes don't }want such information floating around in the wrong hands. Among other }things other ILaistes hold that they should release about Occidental }materials. This is paranoid thinking, Bob.  No one is conspiring to supress this information.  It's lost in people's old files, boxes in attics and _base_ments, and people have other things to do besides resurrecting it. Bob, I don't recall actually promising you to send them.  You asked for them. I'm busy.  And for someone who accuses me of diatribes , why do you think that makes me now willing to do you a favor?  That's an afternoon's job - driving over to Kinko's, getting the copies, getting them into an envelop and driving to the Post Office.  What's in it for me?  Especially after you say such nasty things about me. But I tell you what. I'll make you a deal.  In return for sending me a copy of the source that you say shows that the IED was changed at the last minute, I'll send you a copy of Spiritu de Occidental: Li Ovre de Edgar de Wahl published in 1938. The latter was sent to me by L. M. de Guesnet when we were corresponding back in the 1950's-1960's.  In return for sending me copies of all of the IALA General Reports except that of 1945 (which I have), I'll send you a copy of Haas' Li defectes  inacceptabil de Interlingua Gode .  Otherwise, I'll have to order some of these materials from the New York City Public Library. I won't begin on this unless you agree here in public.  Is it a deal? Bob then said: }P.S. Your quotes give me much pleasure for finally someone is causing this }material to be flushed out in the light of day. Well, it's causing some of us to go back to the _base_ment and attic to locate materials that refute your interpretations of Interlingua history. BTW, are you going to comment on the fact that there are other dictionaries that list the English entries in the same order on numerous pages as does the Concise English-Interlingua Dictionary of Gopsill and Sexton?  That undermines your suggestion that they somehow simply copied their dictionary from the Kemp-Pope English-Occidental Dictionary. Stan Mulaik